We have spent quite a lot of time discussing the wrong approach to dating. And while there will always be plenty of mistakes to go around, we should not feel defined by our failures. If you’ve been a back-door-boy in the past, here’s your chance to try the front door instead. If you have been settling for back-door-boys as a woman, here is what you’ve been missing out on.
Remember, the method determines the message. If all of the fearful, lazy and ignorant ways of boys are indicative of someone who uses the back door, then it makes sense for the opposite to be true of the front-door-man: he would be bold, diligent, and aware.
He is bold: He recognizes that rejection is a legitimate possibility, but that doesn’t stop him from asking. Why? Because she is worth it.
He is diligent: He recognizes that pursuing a woman requires considerate effort – especially with those who are not immediately attracted to him. He works hard to pursue the woman because she is worth it.
He is aware: He knows how to ask to be in a woman’s presence in a way that is both winsome and flattering without being sleezy, cheesey or over-the-top. He has taken time to learn how to approach the woman of his dreams because she is worth it.
So, as Nacho says, let’s get down to the nitty gritty.
Let’s say there’s this guy named Bob. He meets Sue at work and is quite taken with her. He quickly finds out she is single and decides to ask her out. Fortunately for us, Bob is a front-door-man so watching him will give us a great first-look into how to ask a woman for a date.
A few days after noticing his attraction for Sue, Bob decides he is going to go through with asking Sue for a date. So, he gets out his calendar and considers his schedule before asking. He finds a weekend that he knows he is free and thinks that she might be free as well. He has in mind the day and time of the date before ever approaching her. In fact, he probably has some alternates in mind too – just in case she isn’t free on the night he asks for.
Bob heads to work the next day, Wednesday, prepared and ready to ask Sue for a date on Friday night. He patiently waits for the end of the day and catches her just as she is leaving the office.
“Excuse me, Sue. My name is Bob, I work in accounting. We met last week during Larry’s presentation.” Bob is calm, confident and has a pleasant smile on his face. Of course he made sure to shave and dress nicely that day.
“Oh, yes, hello, Bob! Good to talk with you again.” Once Sue gives Bob her eyes, he makes sure never to look away from them. She is his focus – he wants to communicate that.
“Thanks, Sue. Do you have a minute?” Bob doesn’t assume that Sue has the time to stop and talk. He also does not assume that she actually wants to talk with him.
“Sure, I’m just walking to my car to head home. What’s up?” Bob is relieved that although she had the opportunity to move on she didn’t. He rightly takes that as a positive sign and decides to ask before circumstances change.
Calm and very matter-of-fact (because he knows he’s not asking for her hand in marriage – just dinner), Bob makes his request: “Sue, I really enjoyed talking with you after the meeting last week and I was wondering if I could have the pleasure of taking you on a date Friday night. Would you like to have dinner with me?”
“Sure, I would like that. Thank you, Bob!”
“Great! You’re welcome. How about I pick you up at 7pm and we’ll go to a casual dinner?” Bob isn’t sure of when the next time is he will talk with Sue before the date, so he wants to make sure she knows what the date will be (girls like to know what to wear).
“Sounds good!”
Bob then wraps up by asking for directions to her house and for her phone number and then lets her go on her way.
Bob just knocked on the front door. Although circumstances will differ for each man, the basics will remain the same in any scenario:
- He had a plan in mind before he asked
- He asked about 3-4 days in advance
- He asked her at the end of her day (not at the beginning or middle)
- He gave her good eye contact
- He paid her a compliment
- He used the word “date” in his asking
Now, how should the woman respond? The man has done his part. He stuck his neck out. What if the woman isn’t interested? What if she’s not available, but is very interested? What does this look like from a woman’s perspective? We’ll cover that in chapter 2.5.
————
How does this sound? Any suggestions on how you would do it differently?
[Ladies, your input here will be most valuable for the men to hear. If this is the way you would like to be asked out – this is a great place to let them hear you say so.]
A Method for Dating 
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October 19, 2015 at 6:48 PM
PB
Hello Matt. I am really enjoying your blook. It is really well thought out and organized. I am 21 and have never been on a date, so I am finding this information really helpful.
I have gone to school with this girl, who is the same age as me, from K through 12. Due to the small amount of students the majority of my classmates have been great friends all thier lives. I have always been attracted to her, but have never asked her out due to several reasons. I am very introverted and also intimidated by her and her family. She is very popular and attractive and all the guys want to date her. Her family is large and very successful. Similairily, she has a major and knows what she wants to do in life, while I’m just the opposite. Also she stays very busy over the summer and travels alot. Every summer I tell myself I’m going to ask her out but never do. I have finally grown the courage. Our families are close friends, and she is my sister’s best friend. I’m hardly ever alone with her, due to her social nature to ask her, so I don’t know how to get that chance. I also don’t want to hurt our relationship or our families’ with such ‘earth-shattering’ news. She is nice to me and always trys to get me involved at parties. Whenever I’m around her she makes me feel all kinds of wonderfull. I want to be the front-door guy and I finally feel really determined to do that over Christmas break because I don’t want to miss out and have any regrets. Should I confess all of my feelings to her at some point? I was thinking about on the first date, but I wanted your opinion. I want to be honest and get this massive weight off my shoulders and will understand if she says no. A big problem is that we both go to college in neighboring states. Should I just wait until we are both home for the summer? That seems too risky. I think I stand a good chance because she has only been with a few guys in her life and is still single after 2 years of college. I like to think that she is waiting for me, but I dont put much thought into that. The long distance scares me being so inexperienced. With Christmas break being so short and busy I dont know when I’ll find a timeto ask her on a date. Sorry for such a long post, but I feel like you really know what you’re talking about. Thanks!
October 19, 2015 at 6:55 PM
PB
I just realized that I probably come off as a little selfish but she has great qualities that I admire because they are some that I lack, like her extroverted and caring personality. I feel like for everything we have in common, we both have differences that really compliment each other.
October 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM
Matt Lantz
PB- Thanks for your comment; glad the blook has been helpful for you! It sounds like you’re a little bit infatuated with this girl and that makes the step of asking for a date seem much more significant than it actually is. It’s just a date. One date. That’s all she will understand it to be. That’s all you should understand it to be as well. By no means should you “confess all of your feelings to her” at some point. All you need to do is ask her for the opportunity to take her to dinner. That’s all. It’s just a date. Cool your jets, relax, and just ask her out to dinner and see what happens. Best wishes to you!
December 12, 2015 at 10:51 AM
PB
Thanks for your reply. So why should’nt I confess my feelings? We’re both friends and I don’t feel like that would make things worse. I feel like if I just asked her out and she said no, she would never know how much I care for her. It also turns out that she’s going to Europe over break so I think my time to do this will be really limited. I’m not worried about sticking my neck out, and I think the risk of hurting the friendship is almost zero. It’s just hard for me to look at this as being so simple at times, but deep down I know it is.
December 12, 2015 at 11:19 AM
Matt Lantz
The main reason you shouldn’t “confess all your feelings” is simply because it will be quite a shock to her and virtually squash any chance you have to have a relationship with her. Women generally are scared off by a man who comes on too strong like that. The best way to share your feelings is a little bit at a time as the relationship grows. To share all your feelings at once to her isn’t very considerate of how it will make her feel. Frankly, it’s selfish on your part if you don’t consider how what you want will make her feel. Just take her on a date. Then, when she gets back from break, see if you can get date #2.
December 12, 2015 at 1:40 PM
PB
Thanks for the quick reply. You make a good point. Hopefully in the next few weeks I can find some time to ask her. We’ve both expressed how we want to catch up sometime over break so hopefully that is sooner than later. Thanks again.
December 24, 2015 at 12:18 AM
PB
I just did it! I did it! Ive never done anything like that before. She invited me over and we talked side by side for over an hour and when she walked me to the door to leave She stepped out and I asked her! I told her that I find her really attractive but above that I really respect and admire her as a person and listed some traits. Boy was she shocked! Lifelong friends! I gave her an exit like you said. She said she’d like to but she leaves tomorrow but she definately wants to keep in touch and try for sometime in the future. I was a litle dissapointed that she just didnt say yes absolutely, but she was smiling the whole time and didnt seem negative. She said nobody had ever done anything like this before and that what I did took a lot of courage. Well she just messaged me an hour later and said that I am an awesome guy and that she had a great time and hoped I have a good night. She used all exclamation marks. Boy am I! My jaw is still on the floor! Thanks so much! Maybe this is the beginng of a beautiful relatioship.
December 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM
Matt Lantz
Congratulations! Best wishes to you.
May 30, 2015 at 5:28 PM
scott
Hey Matt, I had a question for you. I’m behind being a “front door man” and not a “back door boy.” What happens when you know the timing is just wrong, so it would be unwise to ask her on a date? Being a “front door man” in this situation is hard. I met this girl while starting a new job a few months ago. To be short, I was taken by her. I quickly learned though she was in a long distance relationship. She hinted several times they’d likely break up soon. Basically he wasn’t willing to lock her down or find an end date to their distance. Cheating wasn’t an option for me or her. So I thought just build a friendship with her. And we have. We’ve hung out almost every weekend, more so with other people. Yet, I obviously wanted more. And that wouldn’t happen until she was single and had moved on. We went brunch and I told her I had feelings and wanted her but wanted to respect their relationship. She told me she was in a weird place, that she was going to break up with her boyfriend, wanted to not be in something serious at the moment, and that we’d “work things out.” So I just took a step back. Well when I came back from vacation earlier this month she told she broke up with her boyfriend. But I know she’s not over him and it’s clear she’s not looking for a new relationship. I never wanted it to be “her ex, me.” but rather “her ex. me.” anyways. So it’s a weird situation. I don’t feel the time is right to be forward and ask her out on a date. But being friends with a girl when you really like them I feel just like sucks you into being a “back door boy.” I’m not sure if I have the maturity or wisdom to walk that with grace. Any thoughts?
June 1, 2015 at 9:02 AM
Matt Lantz
Hi, Scott! Thanks for your question. My answer to your question of “What happens when you the timing is wrong?” is simple: if you sense the timing is wrong, then don’t initiate a relationship with her. Remember, being friends with a woman is cowardly ONLY if you are using a friendship as a means of securing a romantic relationship with her. A regular friendship that doesn’t grow into anything more than a friendship (where attraction is still possible, but NOT acted upon) is completely reasonable and not something to avoid. Ideally in those situations, the attraction should be avoided (or quenched), but not the friendship.
Sometimes the courageous thing for a man to do if he has grown to like a girl he has been friends with is to keep his mouth shut, be patient, and wait until the timing is right.
Good luck!
June 6, 2015 at 11:51 PM
scotteshbaugh
Thanks man for your thoughts. Makes it clearer in my mind now.
November 2, 2014 at 9:51 PM
Jordan
Matt, this question kind of follows off of this post and the one about the girl responding to the ask. Is there any value in persistence to some degree? As in, I asked a girl on a date (following your recommendations), but she respectfully said she didn’t see a relationship coming. I would not continually ask, but would you say there’s value in asking only one more time in any case when you’ve been turned down? This is a strange question, so if you don’t really have an answer, there’s no problem-I understand your job isn’t a relationship counselor.
November 4, 2014 at 4:23 PM
Matt Lantz
Jordan, that’s a great question. Persistence is a great idea, but only up to a point. Typically I tell guys that they get 3 strikes with a girl. Once she says no a third time, you should move on. Now, when you use those strikes is up to you. Generally though, the sentiment, “Hey, I know you said no already, but I’m really interested in you and I’d be silly to just take no for an answer the first time and walk away. I’m not looking for any commitment from you – just another chance to take you out to dinner” is a simple and honest way for you to ask for another chance with a girl who isn’t interested. Even if she says no a second straight time, she should still feel respected and honored by your ask. At that point, I’d save that 3rd strike for a while later. I’ve seen guys been persistent but not pushy and it seems to have worked well. The key is patience. If she is a woman that you think is worth being rejected for, then she’s worth being patient with. Hope that helps!
October 21, 2014 at 5:43 PM
W
Hey matt, i’ve used the tips/method in this section and the girl i asked out said yes. However there are 2 issues.
First off, neither my first plan nor the backup corresponded with her schedule (she has to work on both occasions) and we agreed to pick a day together for our date. How should i initiate that phone-call and when should i make it?
The second issue is that when i asked her on a “date”, she responded that she would like to get to know eachother better, but wasn’t sure on making it a date-date right away. How should i interpret this? (She did agree to go out with me)
Thanks,
W
October 23, 2014 at 11:09 AM
Matt Lantz
W- Great questions! As for your first question, I’d suggest initiating that phone call as soon as possible by saying, “Hi Sally, I’ve got some days here that work for me. Will any of them work for you?” And for the second issue, you should go into the first date with your expectations tempered considerably. Honor her request and not call it a “date”. If you have a good time, ask her just as you did before. You should interpret this as: she wasn’t ready for the ask and doesn’t know what she thinks about you, she’s pretty sure she wouldn’t want to date you long term but is willing to give it a try, or it’s possible she’s been waiting/hoping for a different guy to ask her out.
Whatever her reasons, they shouldn’t change your approach, so don’t worry about trying to interpret her statement. Be excited that you have the opportunity and enjoy your time together! Best wishes!
October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM
Nick Leyva ن (@Nick_Leyva)
Hey Matt! I have a question.
I want to ask a girl on a date that I have known for a while, but we live about two-hundred miles apart. I am extremely attracted to her and want to honor her in my asking her on a date. Should I drive to her house and ask her or should I politely call her on the phone? Would calling her on the phone be using the back door?
Thanks,
Nick
October 1, 2014 at 6:09 AM
Matt Lantz
Hey Nick, thanks for your question. As noble as asking a girl out in person who lives 200 miles away might be, I’m afraid it would be a little over the top for her (especially if you don’t know her all that well). I think a phone call is entirely appropriate for asking her for the date. Assuming she says yes, then you would drive the 200 miles for the actual date.
If she lived where you live, then using the phone wouldn’t be the best choice for the ask. But since she lives some distance away, it’s entirely appropriate to call. Just make sure you actually ask her on a date when you do. 🙂
Best wishes!
October 1, 2014 at 9:59 PM
Nick Leyva ن (@Nick_Leyva)
Fantastic. Thanks so much for the wisdom!
July 17, 2014 at 3:36 AM
Ladyboy Kisses
Awesome tips! 🙂
November 6, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Anonymous
Hey Matt, what is your take on walking up to a girl you’ve never met, introducing yourself, and proceeding to ask her out on a date? FYI This would be a girl on my college campus who has mutual friends. Thanks!
November 8, 2013 at 7:44 PM
Matt Lantz
I love the idea! Be prepared to meet her somewhere instead of picking her up at her place as she may not be comfortable riding with you if she doesn’t know you. Introduce yourself, pay her a compliment, and then keep it short & sweet & to the point. Even if she says no, make sure she walks away feeling flattered and valued that you would even ask. Best wishes!
January 15, 2013 at 8:38 PM
TM
I got a question that I have always wondered. When you ask a lady for her number how up front are you with her and your motives? Basically do you tell her may I have your number because I want to get to know you more and see if it will lead anywhere?
January 23, 2013 at 9:00 AM
Matt Lantz
TM- Getting to know someone to see if it will lead anywhere is generally the purpose of dating. So, instead of doing that over phone/text, why not just ask her on a date?
January 14, 2013 at 8:28 PM
TM
I got a question. I have usually went after not so Godly women and I am not used to a pursuit of a Godly woman. Well I met a Godly lady this summer. I only have her on Facebook. I don’t really know her know her I just know she is a Godly woman. On top of that we both live in two differents states. I have no idea on how to be the front door man or honestly where to start. Advice?
January 14, 2013 at 8:56 PM
Matt Lantz
That’s a great question and I’m sure one that many people are thinking about these days. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that starting a relationship through Facebook is going to be the best “front door” approach. I know this stinks to hear, but I would either wait until next summer when perhaps you might get to see her again, or, if you’re extremely brave, ask her politely for her phone number via FB message and give her a call. Whatever the case, stay away from a Facebook relationship. It reeks of back-door-ness. But that’s just my opinion. Perhaps other female readers out there might be able to comment?
January 14, 2013 at 9:07 PM
TM
Yea I don’t think ill ever do that. Some have told me to drive there and ask her but is would that be creeper?
January 14, 2013 at 9:20 PM
Matt Lantz
Unfortunately, yes, I think so.
January 1, 2012 at 3:35 AM
Anonymous
Got a scenario for you! I noticed this girl around campus beginning this last fall, just like any guy naturally notices an attractive girl, I guess. Then I realized that we go to the same church. Well, one Sunday, in the middle of the sermon, the thought crossed my mind of actually talking to her. I began to write my name and phone number down on a piece of the bulletin. (I realize it’s not a healthy practice to be thinking about other things throughout a sermon, but on occasion I don’t think there is anything explicitly wrong with it.) Long story short, once the service was over, I went up to her (nervous out of my mind), introduced myself to her, got her name, told her I just wanted to meet her, and then told her I was also wondering if I could take her to coffee sometime. (By the way, I’m a sophomore and she’s a freshman, if that matters.) I realize this was abrupt, and I made the mistake of not waiting for a solid answer right then and there. I told her I knew it was sudden and that I wanted to give her a chance to think about it. So I gave her my name and phone number and told her should could text me whether or not she was interested, and, depending on her response, I’d either call her and follow up or just leave her alone. Never got a response! We’ve passed each other a few times on campus and casually greeted each other since, so it’s not as awkward as it could be, I guess. That all went down a little over 2 months ago. But, after considering some of the things I’ve read in your blook as well as advice from other men in my life, I’m considering putting myself out there again and giving it another shot, since she never actually said no 😉 I like the idea of actually just going up to her, telling her I know it was abrupt last time, and that if she told me no now then I would leave her alone, but I would like the opportunity to take her out to dinner on a date later in the week. (And I would actually wait for a response this time.) Sometimes I tend to over-think a “date” and, before I even ask her out, I’m asking myself questions like if I’m really attracted to her, which I guess I can’t really know better until I ask her out and get to know her anyways, right? What I kind of got from my dad is a nice simple way of looking at it, and I think I need to move more in that direction. It is, after all, just a date, and neither one of us is committing to anything at this point (except me committing to honoring her, I suppose). So I guess what I’m asking is, in your opinion:
Is the fact that sometimes I feel attracted to her and sometimes I don’t a sign that I shouldn’t ask her out in order to respect her heart, or is that understandable since I don’t really know her yet?
Should I go for it again or take her lack of response the first time as a no?
If I should go for it again, do you have any advice for me in regards to what I’ve already said?
I know that’s a lot, so thanks for your time!
January 3, 2012 at 8:52 AM
Matt Lantz
I think your dad is absolutely right. Keep it simple; it’s just a date (and that’s all it may ever be). Since you want to ask her out again, I would recommend asking her without reference to the previous time when you gave her your number. Instead, as you mentioned, ask her out on a date and wait for her to respond to you. Even if her lack of response the first time communicated a ‘no’, things might have changed over the past 2 months. And even if they haven’t changed, it’s still worth a shot, right? Besides, even if she’s not interested she’ll still be flattered. Make sure you use the word ‘date’ when you ask her, too. Perhaps a lunch date would be less intimidating? Whatever the case, start simple and straightforward. Don’t obsess about it or over-think it. It’s just a date.
As far as your question about attraction: You should expect your feelings of attraction to fluctuate throughout your relationship with any woman (whether you are dating her or not). While feelings of attraction may be the impetus that gets the relationship going, it is certainly no barometer for whether or not you should stay in the relationship (feelings of any sort should never be in that sort of steering position). Don’t look to your feelings as “signs” and try to interpret them; they will only frustrate you. Instead, make a decision about whether or not you want to initiate with this woman and then let the feelings follow the lead of your will.
Hope that helps!
January 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM
Anonymous
Great, thank you for your help and your time!
September 26, 2011 at 12:46 AM
Ragin' Cajun
Matt,
You brought up “asking at the front door” at a staff Bible study at the Ranch in 2007.
In 2009, I had this advice specifically in mind when I called a girl (who was a friend) and asked her on our first date (making a point to say “date”). It set the stage for a healthy and mutually respectful dating relationship.
Just wanted you to know that we benefited from listening to you!
Thanks, Matt!
September 28, 2011 at 10:54 PM
Matt Lantz
Hey, cool! Thanks for sharing. Glad it worked out for you guys!
August 16, 2011 at 2:33 PM
Trevor
So after reading the posts thus far, I have realized that I’ve been this back door guy my whole life. I’ve never dated anyone before so I just went along with what others told me and after a time would look back and see the shambles that advice had left me in, making me ask myself what went wrong.
Matt, I thoroughly appreciate your help in this. It also brings to light a situation I’m currently in. I have a group of friends that I hang out with and I find myself attracted to one of their roommates. It’s gossip now that I like her and I want to be assertive and initiate with a coffee date or the like. I’m just a little apprehensive because what I was only thinking about in the beginning now seems to have a lot of pressure on not only the girl and myself but the entire friend group. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
August 17, 2011 at 7:13 AM
Matt Lantz
Trevor-
I’m glad the blook has been helpful for you!
If your attraction to this girl is strong enough that you would actually like to pursue a relationship with her, then you absolutely need to ask her on a date (and taking her to coffee isn’t a date, it’s a hang out). Ask her to dinner! Now, on the other hand, if you feel like you’re only attracted to her and she’s not someone you would likely get into a relationship with, then you need to make sure you aren’t showing her special attention. Eventually the pressure from your friends will blow over.
Bottom line – you need to decide what you want to do and get started.
July 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM
Bobby
Hey matt great blog. I wanted to get your advice on my situation regarding asking a girl out. I worked with this girl on a 3 month contracted project. It ended in April and I’ve been interested in asking her out now but we really haven’t seen each other since then. I wanted to give her a call and thought about just being up front and asking her on a date. I talked to my parents about it and they thought if I did that then I may scare her away since we haven’t talked in a few months. They thought I should just ask if she wanted to catch up so I can get to know her better before thinking about dating. It makes sense not to scare her off but I wonder if she might think I’m just not being clear about my intentions since I would be calling her out of the blue and she would figure out my interest in her. I want to do this the right way but feel my situation is unique. What would be your advice? Thanks
July 11, 2011 at 9:43 PM
Matt Lantz
Bobby- Great question! I won’t pretend that my answer is the right one, but I’ll offer my two-cents (perhaps there are some women reading who could offer their insight?).
When it comes to these unique situations that are difficult to determine, I tend to fall back on principles. As you’ve been reading here, I’m a strong advocate of men not pretending to act like friends just to get their foot in the door with a woman. If a man desires to have a dating relationship with a woman, he should ask her on a date – not for friendship. So, even though this situation is unique, it seems to me that you’re not interested in friendship with this woman; you’re interested in dating her. So, I say, ask her for a date. (Besides, if you call her out of the blue she’s going to think something is up anyway.)
I think the key to whether or not she is ‘scared off’ will be in the way you ask her. Keep it simple and keep it casual. You could say something like, “Hi, Betty, I really enjoyed working with you on the project this spring. I really admired how well you handled yourself in the presentation. You did a great job with that. (she says thanks). Well, the reason I’m calling is because after working with you I was thinking I’d like to get to know you a little bit better and I was wondering if I could take you to lunch or dinner this weekend. How would you feel about going on a date with me?”
Bottom line: stating your intentions is important, but it doesn’t have to be scary. It’s just a date.
Hope that helps!
[Any women out there have other suggestions for Bobby?]
September 3, 2012 at 7:07 PM
Courtney
I realize this post is from over a year ago, but I just came across it today and wanted to comment on Bobby’s question, even just for other guys’ sakes. As a 23 year old woman, I completely agree with Matt on this one. If a guy who I hadn’t seen in a while asked me to go out just to “catch up,” I would still wonder what his intentions are. This is exactly the sort of scenario that I and other female friends of mine would sit around and talk about together, trying to figure out whether it’s actually a date or not. I would prefer a guy to just call it a date if he’s remotely interested in that; if after the date, he’s only interested in friendship, then no harm done. Ladies appreciate guys being to the point and not having to guess what your intentions are if they’re somewhat ambiguous! And even if being asked on a date catches us off guard, we really appreciate your boldness in legitimately asking us out on a date and will respect you more for it!
September 5, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Matt Lantz
Courtney- Thanks for your feedback – even if it is a while later! Personal insights and experiences will help all of us sort through this stuff a little better. Thanks for taking the time to share!
June 30, 2011 at 4:23 PM
Annonymous
Here’s a whole different scenario….being set-up with someone.
I recently was and want to share because it is an example to a lot of things talked in this book. First date he texted me and asked if I would like to go out for coffee. He named the date, time, and place and we met there. Disappointed that he did not call, I brought it up on our first date jokingly. He quickly apologized for being a coward and said it’s just hard to call someone you’ve n never met. I laughed it off and said that there is grace. We left and he said he would contact me soon, and he might even call this time.
Second date he called and asked to take me out to dinner and if he could pick me up. During the phone call, he said jokingly, “Hey, I called you this time, aren’t you proud of me?” Instead of saying, “Well no, that’s what you’re supposed to do!!!”, I said something like, “Yes. I really appreciate it and it means a lot to me.” (nudging him in the right direction I hope). Third date he called (he’s learning!) and asked to take me to do a certain activity and we met there this time. Forth date he came to my house and we baked cookies based off of a running joke we had going on. Looking back I feel that this was not a wise thing and way too soon on my part to ask him over. But it’s done and I learned from it. Fifth date he invited me to his house so that he could cook for me. Now….
Here are a few questions I have.
1.Since there is absolutely no history between us, how do you form a friendship from the ground up WHILE dating at the same time?
2.Also, how soon do you let him into your life and go into his (meet friends)? Since we don’t have any mutual friends, all we have done is spend time alone. I feel like it’s not good to spend too much time alone. But inviting him to hang out with my friends is forward and a huge step in the dating process.
3. Since there is not much background knowledge of this guy (besides what I know from the mutual couple that set us up), I want to know quickly if our values, beliefs, and vision for life lines up. If it doesn’t, isn’t it better to know quickly so you can stop dating? But that is really intimate stuff to talk about so soon. Or is it? When and how do you bring that stuff up?
Haha…FULL of questions 🙂
June 30, 2011 at 11:51 PM
Matt Lantz
Thanks for sharing your story! Even though your circumstances are somewhat unique, I think your story and questions are applicable to everyone.
Answer to question 1: Trying to become friends with someone though dating is like trying to make orange juice with a bunch of apples. Neither of you are going on dates because you ultimately want to become friends, right? Eventually, you want to be in love and get married to someone special. So, instead of trying to develop two types of relationships simultaneously (dating & friendship), focus on developing the romance and, I think, the friendship will blossom along with it.
Question 2: Bottom line on this one is that it’s up to you. My personal preference would be to introduce him to my closest friends first. They likely already know that you’re seeing him and you probably won’t feel embarrassed or awkward around them. You’re right, it’s probably not great (or all that comfortable) to be alone with him early on. Perhaps the couple that set you two guys up would be a good starting place? From there, maybe you could organize a group date where you invite one or two of your friends (who can bring a date) and he does the same and you all go to a concert. As you figure out whether or not the relationship is going to survive, you should continue increasing the number of your friends that he meets. I don’t think it would be inappropriate for you guys to talk about how this could be done during your next date.
Question 3: Even though they are intimate topics, they don’t have to be intimate conversations. Pick one topic to discuss on each date. Make sure to discuss it at a public place and early on in the evening. That can keep the discussion still informative without also becoming super intimate. However, why would you be going on a 5th or 6th date with a guy you didn’t want to start having intimate conversations with anyway? Isn’t that the point?
Although these are good questions, make sure that you give him opportunity to lead you in these areas before you take control. He is the one that is in charge of the pace and the direction of the relationship. Follow him. If he feels parented or led by you too much, there’s a good chance he’ll quickly lose interest and want to move on.
Hope that helps!
June 24, 2011 at 4:00 PM
Michael Pieper
Also, I definitely agree on explicitly stating “this is a date”! “The medium is the message”!
June 23, 2011 at 8:39 PM
Abbey Lee
I think eventually picking a girl up for a date is a must, probably by about date three or so, but i think it would be best to do so in the form of a question. “I was thinking friday we could go roller skskating, is it alright if i pick you up?” This gives the girl the chance to allow the guy to her home or kindly decline the idea. As for the first date home pick up, judge it on how much you have allowed her to know of you, if you’re both in a bible study or work group, and she has had a chance to know who you are then yes, however if you have seen her from afar and want to get to know her better than no. More or less it’s always smart to put yourself in her shoes or yourself in the shoes of the guy you want asking out your sister
June 24, 2011 at 10:07 AM
Matt Lantz
Great feedback for us guys, Abbey! Thank you!
June 22, 2011 at 11:39 AM
Cathie Jerry
I think the eye contact and compliment are both wonderful and so mature! & Using the word “date” is totally necessary.
This is kind of what I meant about the whole “surveillance” thing.. If Bob just has one (or even two) conversations with Sue, does he know enough about her to know he’d like to take her on a date?
.. On second thought, if these conversations are somewhat intentional, then I think I’d be comfortable after one or two conversations – but if they are surface-level, I’d be a lot more hesitant.
June 22, 2011 at 6:57 PM
Matt Lantz
Cathie, great questions. Personally, I think the initial motivation for asking a woman on a date is physical attraction (the character, personality and other aspects of the woman follow quickly afterwards, though). The physical attraction is the spark for the man to ask and the date is designed to communicate “I’m not trying to trick you by being your friend – I want to get to know you because I find you attractive.” I generally advise guys to avoid any kind of “getting to know you” conversations prior to asking a girl on a date. That’s what the date is for! (As I have made clear, it’s back-door-ish for a guy to make friends before asking a woman on a date)
That’s just me, though. Do you (or anyone else reading) find that to be too forward?
June 24, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Michael Pieper
I see your point, and I believe there are strengths and weaknesses for each of the different approaches to dating. A weakness that I have observed from the “get to know the guy/girl during the dating process”, is this:
People act differently when they know you’re interested. It’s probably not the mature thing to do, but I’ve seen it happen where a guy doesn’t know that much about a girl (or vice versa); he doesn’t know that she is a little immature or materialistic or shallow, because he hasn’t gotten to know her yet. But as soon as he asks her out, she tries to ‘quick fix’ herself, and she puts on the mask of someone she’s not, just because someone is interested and she doesn’t want to lose their interest. In the end, the person is found out, but it can be after months or years of constant maintenance to the relationship, wondering why it’s not working.
Without the mutual knowledge of attraction, it can cut down on all the pretenses we bring to relationships. Of course there are pitfalls with this method too. And with two mature people, all this wouldn’t be a danger; but then it’s a catch-22, because you don’t know if they’re mature yet! Haha. Anyways, there’s just another viewpoint 🙂 I’ve seen it work and fail with both methods.
June 24, 2011 at 9:31 PM
Matt Lantz
Michael – I totally understand your concern and it is a valid problem. However, if the guy selects the right kind of dates there are ways around it. If both people are being fake, it’s the man’s responsibility to create an atmosphere in the relationship and on the date that allows for more genuine interaction. Although it is sometimes a maturity issue, most of the time I think it’s more the issue of the man being lazy in the types of dates he comes up with. More on this in chapter 3.
June 27, 2011 at 1:27 PM
Cathie Jerry
Sorry I haven’t replied to this yet! This is such a sticky issue. Really, though, I think you’re right in that faking a friendship is a backdoor way to dating. After reflecting on a few personal experiences, it gets confusing and annoying when a guy repeatedly shows genuine interest in me and asks intentional questions whenever I’m around, but never ends up communicating his feelings.
It is scary to think that people could be insincere towards each other on a date, but I think a guy or girl who is mature will be doing their best (with the Lord) to humble themselves and be genuine.
August 4, 2011 at 3:24 PM
Adam L
I agree that there don’t need to be any “getting to know you” conversations before a date, but I also think that it is fine if they happen on accident. For example, a man and a woman are in the same small group or discipleship class at their church, and through the course of time with the group know a little bit of who the other is without any individual or separate time. That man can still straightforwardly ask the woman out, with some idea of who she is, rather than intentionally getting to know every woman he finds attractive.
August 4, 2011 at 5:49 PM
Matt Lantz
Well said, Adam! Thanks for the illustration.
June 21, 2011 at 8:42 PM
R. Seth Thibodeaux
Bob proceeds to go home and take nap. haha. I, too, find it odd about the whole “house” thing. First the first date, I think meeting somewhere mutually and hanging out in public is best. Not knowing where the date lives is even better, for a number of reasons. Most girls don’t really trust guys – at all – at first. Showing him where she lives is a huge no-no and pretty invasive, but mentioning I agree mentioning the word “date” is critical. I still think it’s best for a mutual meet up somewhere. Personally, I don’t want some girl I kinda like to be driving me around town, so I don’t expect her to like me driving her around too much either.
June 22, 2011 at 6:51 PM
Matt Lantz
Seth, you’re right on bro. If the man and the woman don’t know each other that well (if at all) the asking could go more like this:
“. . .Would you like to have dinner with me?”
“Sure, I would like that. Thank you, Bob!”
“Great! You’re welcome. Since we don’t know each other that well, how about we meet at Olive Garden on 5th street at 7pm for a casual dinner?”
“That sounds great, Bob. I’ll meet you there on Friday.”
“Thanks, Sue! Here is my phone number in case you need to reach me.”
June 21, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Abbey 'Hoot' Lee
honestly, I think I would personally be a little bit uneasy going out with someone I met for a few brief moments after a meeting and allowing him to come to my house. For this sort of instance it may be a bit easier to do coffee or lunch at work first so I know who this is that I’m allowing to my house. However, if I’ve gotten to work with this person some and have gotten a chance to know who they are and at least a little bit about their character, then YES, go for it!
There is a lot of importance in mentioning the DATE. Many guys conveniently leave that part out and so you think you’re going to spend time with a friend and then you realize you are on a date, not cool, because then we have unknowingly given that positive feedback that wasn’t necessarily intended.
June 22, 2011 at 6:46 PM
Matt Lantz
Great feedback Abbey! Every situation will be different, so guys will want to make sure they adjust accordingly. If the man and the woman are complete strangers it would be very easy for them to meet at a pre-arranged location (the guy should have this in mind prior to asking) rather than having him pick her up at her house. The principles of asking, however, remain the same.
Abbey (and any other women reading this comment), how can men discern whether or not they should meet you somewhere or offer to pick you up at your house? Any advice?